An imaginary place in a reactionary time

There is a dark side and a darker side to this black woman with straightened hair and a crooked soul.

As a Soviet expert employed by Chevron, Condi helped buy the oil under the former central Asian Soviet republics including Kazakstan and Uzbekistan. She rose in the U.S. government based on her knowledge of the Soviets, not the Saudi-financed Islamic terrorist network. She clearly was off her secure turf as a pimp of all things Rooskie in the shifting emphasis on national security.

The darker side is described in detail in the book "Forbidden Truth: U.S.-Taliban Secret Oil Diplomacy and the Failed Hunt for bin Laden." www.forbiddentruth.net

It describes the choices the U.S. oil companies had for a way to get the oil out of the former Soviet region. Using the exisiting Russian pipeline was too expensive since the Russians wanted a big piece of the action.

Using Iran was problematic. Look what happened when the U.S. used their money to finance the torture and murder of Nicaraguan women and children. (Well, don’t look too hard. You might turn up a hands-on, in-country and paid Contra in your midst.)

The obvious geo-political choice for the pipeline is Afghanistan. The trouble is, the warring warlords were too numerous to deal with and never had complete control.

The Taliban did.

Anybody remember an NPR interview with the Afghan-American woman, Laili Helms?

She was the one who went on about how the Taliban were really a great bunch of guys once you got to know them. On her American side, she is the niece of Richard Helms, former head of the CIA.

The Taliban was in negotiations with the U.S. for the pipeline deal.

The crusty Afghans didn’t think the children of the rich are as cute as a lot of Americans do, so they were predisposed to turn up their noses at a guy like Osama strutting around in $800 English riding boots, even if he did use his family’s money to ingratiate himself.

They might have been on the verge of giving him up to the U.S. as part of the oil pipeline deal, and Osama might have played his trump card by activating the sleeper cells.

The book makes no big conclusions, but sure provides a lot of deep background.

Shit Liberals beware: your action hero Democrats won’t be bringing up these issues, since they, too, were involved, going back at least to Bert Lance and the Bank of Commerce and Credit International scandal and including Bill Clinton's bombing of aspirin factories.

Trick question: Who was the first world leader to order the arrest (for murder, no less) of Osama? Answer: Good Old Mo' Kadafi.

Can you call her words at all explosive? They seem like flowers. "Here, try one of these, do you like it? Now, do you like me? Can I keep my job, and become more affluent when we're through?"

Let's keep going.

Nice post who ever posted it

Yeah, nice post.

The Taliban and bin Laden were our creations. We're getting the blowback now.

Watch your grammar, Great Satan.

Like Malcolm X said, it's not "our" government, it's "the" government, currently under the control of Republocrats.

You might have a U.S.A. address on your passport and probably your birth certificate, but you don't have to include yourself in "their" crimes against the rest of "us" and the world.

It's an attitude that'll come in mighty handy when you have to bitch-slap some obnoxious Canadian in a third country sucking up to the locals on the basis of not being an American -- at your expense-- even though they think he's more of a gringo than they think you are.

Hey I get to be the only wacko on here

AOL is advertising that is it giving away a car "seized from a spammer", I swear we are only about 20 years away from going back to gladitor games

oakey, you are just one of the many whackos on this board.

we will begin the games begin here when MovableType releases verswion 3 and i lock down the comments...

Well, I never supported all the bullshit the USG has done, and actively opposed a lot of it.

But I still take responsibility for what my government has done. I don't know, it keeps me from pretending I don't have any responsibility to oppose it. I think, for instance, of the issue of slave reparations. My family wasn't even here during slavery. But my government was, so I wouldnt oppose it, and even actively support it to the extent descendants of slaves do.

I make a distinction between guilt and responsibility. Guilt is not inherited, or vicarious. But responsibility is taken on by participating in the process of government, and accepting benefits from government. All of us who live here do that, so we all have responsibility for our government.

As to the hypothetical Canadian, I won't bitch slap him (I like Canadians, and am partly of Canadian extraction, and wish we had their foreign policy.) I'd just show the local my Irish passport. Everyone likes the Irish (except the British, but I'm not planning any visits there.)

oakey's AOL spamer's porsch to be auctioned link--

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3581435.stm

Well, geez, Great Satan, you sure do look a bit odd by saying, on the one hand, that you take responsibility for something while ducking out on it by flashing your Irish passport.

What about the situation with the Canuck punks?

Those of us from the USA were living and working with the Soviet-armed side, frequently discussing the pros and cons of killing US military or their civilian mercenary pals that might be inclined to invade our happy little adopted village.

We were all for killing the U.S. forces if they showed their faces. You might call it a responsibilty.

The Canucks were copping attitude about how "their" government was better than "our" government, like some couch potato assholes from Green Bay glomming onto the Packers. Too bad the locals wouldn't trust them to go into the militarily contested areas they welcomed us into. They're the ones that said they didn't want to pick up the guns to defend the joint.

Listen, you maple syrup-swigging Beaver Boys, we don't have shit to do with "our" government. Fuck you for being born Snow Billies, too.

The Canadians merely latched onto "their" government the same way they sucked their mothers' tits, although their mothers probably had more reservations about putting out for this sorry lot.

We were where we were under penalty of five years in jail and $50K in fines. They were there to get a Help-a-Darkie merit badge for some kind of Canadian Eagle Scout program, or at least not putting themselves at any risk back home.

People did get killed, like one of "us" who was blasted with a hand grenade, then shot to death while he was half-dead and thrashing around in the mud. Tell him about "his" government and any "responsibility" for it.

So you would have done what? Say something about how responsible you were for U.S. foreign policy, how bad you felt about it, then show them your Irish passport so they would like you more than they were supposed to like you just for yourself?

What's wrong with just being yourself and making choices? Can't you live without being part of something else, like a government, a religion, a nation or some half-assed notion of an Irish "tribe"?

By the way, who is the alleged local Contra? There sure are plenty of people who would like to find this guy in a secluded spot.

Is there actually a person involved here who was some kind of Nicaraguan Contra?

I am against violence. I would not have been willing to go somewhere else to fight in any war for any reason, so I don't agree with whoever posted the stuff about fighting for the "other" side in Africa or Latin America or where ever he was talking about.

But the thought that there is someone in the community who worked for such a despicable organization as the Contras sickens me.

Who is the Contra?

I was with the Contras. Got a problem with that?

Hey copycat, knock it off! I was in the Contras, you weren't even with the money laundering scheme. What the fuck is it with you, everything I do, you have to copy or claim for your own. I get a boat, you get a boat. I get a blonde, you get a blonde. What, don't tell me you're going condo now? And you better hurry up with the kids, you ain't getting any younger and neither is your sperm.

And hey, to the gutless nameless bushwhacking soviet suck up and canuck basher: anytime, anyplace. You bring what you have and I'll bring the School of the Americas dirty tricks manual. You know the one, with the best parts cribbed from Uncle Joe and Che. I guarantee you an educational experience of a lifetime. And you'll feel just like a kid again. You'll be bawling your eyes out like a little baby. And then you'll be landfill

Yeah, I take responsibility for what my government does.

But you don't have to. That's certainly a legitimate point of view.

Again, the issue is grammar.

Why call it your government? It is not just that you didn't vote for George Bush. It's that he didn't win -- not just in the popular vote, but in the electoral. The final count in Florida clearly shows that. Where were the Democrats to stand in the front of the angry masses protesting that?

So why take responsiblity? Sure, it is different than guilt, but why not stand as an independent human being, a frickin' citizen of the world, to coin a phrase, and face up to the facts: Those of us who were born here have no choice in accepting or rejecting whatever benefits there are to be Americans. We don't owe anybody in a uniform more than the postage it takes to send a letter, and even that is up for dispute.

Unless you are extremely wealthy and immune to the law, you have to take it the way it gets dished out. Even Michael Jackson and his millions can't get around that one.

So then the issue becomes one of opposition or whatever it is that all of us do to some degree to avoid being part of the philistine herd.

If you like the other side enough, you can help them in their fight against the U.S. government and take your chances on getting the same treatment as an enemy combatant. It's an option that is always there.

In the case of places like Iraq, we probably agree that there is not a whole lot to like about the other side. The options are fewer.

Without packing your suitcase, there are plenty of people who have been in jail for doing things like destroying draft records, fucking up missile bases, etc. That's another option.

Let's get back to the beginning of this thread: The blame for 9/11 can be spread out over quite a few years and includes both sides of the very narrow range of political choices.

Have you read Michael Moore's Stupid White Men? He makes a very good case for Bill Clinton being the best Republican president we have ever had. Bush is just worse in every way, but not really different.

You might want to sit down and have a few beers with Bill, even though he is guilty of doing a lot of the things Bush furthered and intensified. That's not much of a choice.

Why paint yourself into a corner by defining yourself as a member of any kind of nation or religion? That doesn't mean you can't prefer eating burgers and fries, or worship or not worship as you please.

When you act like "being an American" counts for anything, though, you just play into the hands of the people who want to warp that into some bullshit form of patriotism that fuels war and totalitarianism.

When you say you've got something against the English, you just play into the hands of the people who benefit from endless violence in Ireland. Right now there is some innocent kid in England being taught to hate the Irish, so you will cancel each other out in no time at all. Why not treat both sides like two great contributors to the world's supply of beer and whiskey?

You seem to confuse culture with nationalism. All nations are bullshit. Culture is something different and very much an insignificant thing. It's all icing and no cake, but then, I always like scarfing up the icing on the cake. Don't confuse it with substance, though.

I wonder if there really is a guy running around here who got paid to be a Contra.

I hope he realizes how many innocent people suffered for it and continue to suffer. People in parts of Nicaragua are actually starving to death these days while a lot of the rest of us sip premium coffee and bitch about our own lives.

Perhaps he can be persuaded to do the right thing and at least give back all the money he made with interest. A trip down there to do some beneficial things instead of murdering the kiddies will always be appreciated.

Since you seem to know a lot about things Irish, you might want to check out the Republican (Irish, that is) group that has been providing aid to Nicaragua.

Check out AN PHOBLACHT and look for the Derry womens group helping Nicaraguan farmers at www.republican- news.org/archive/2003/January16/16farm.html